Windsor Coopers in the USA

Although I never intended to research the English Romanies that went overseas whether by choice, or were sent there by way of punishment ! While looking for certain folk who were missing from the English Census I came across many familiar names! so much so that I thought it would be remiss of me not to include them in the History and stories of the English Romanichals.

As I have followed the South Country Cooper's and Wells/Stanley and many other families that married into the families mentioned I was caught straight away by a family of Wells who were in my files already as in the Dorset Census and then by the Stanley family as of course the well documented Owen Stanley who hailed possibly from Dorset although(its only my theory!) as I have found early baptism's for Owen in Dorset also the burial of Sarah Stanley in 1821 Puddletown "Ye Gypsy Queen" and many Stanley’s and Wells seem to have gone between Hampshire/Dorset/Somerset Devon and Cornwall and along the way married into the Buckland/Penfold/Isaacs/Hicks/

Lee and many more and they seemed to have followed the same pattern in America ! with same Christian names being used for their children so the names Nelson Plato/Mizelli/britannia/Reginia/kenza/Dangerfield/Valentine/Synfie/Lemontina and many more can be seen in the American records. The 1854 passenger list for the ship Try departing from Scotland !(must have been a long trek!!) bound for New York is Robert Wells and family along with a Stanley family (Benjamin and Mary son of Owen & Harriet) which also connects again to Dorset for the origins of Owen snr. Between then and 1861 Robert returns home and is in Warnbrook Dorset with his family , but later census in America find sons William ,Thomas and Henry so obviously they must have returned to the States as did the Buckland /Stanley families and also the Cooper family seemed to have gone back and forth several times which I found quite surprising.

This in turn led me of on yet another tangent ! As I always look out for any information and references to the "Windsor Coopers" as I have always thought that John "Stumpy" Cooper was part of this family but have never managed to find the missing link !! Elisha cooper b 1795 son of Elisha Cooper and Truffeni Lovell (according to the T. W .Thompson's Papers at the Bodleian Library, Oxford Truffeni Lovell and as the name Tryphena (Truffeni) reappears in the family I have no reason to doubt it) I haven’t got all the siblings or indeed the children from their siblings but I'm pretty certain that the Cooper's who appear on the passenger lists and in American census are from this Cooper family .

The problem as always being the fact they all used the same names for their offspring!! In the USA we have Elisha Cooper b 1854

to Elisha Cooper and Defiance(Caroline) two of their children are born in Wales , Perrin a good Cooper name! baptism for Perrin 05 NOV 1843 Llantillio Crossenny, Monmouth so seems Wales was right ,maybe Caroline (Defiance) came from Wales ?

 The passenger list for the ship "The ISAAC BELL" arrived at New York on 6th Sept 1856 and has Elisha Cooper b abt 1856/ Angelina?(I think Tryphena) born abt 1856/Kerga?(Keziah?) abt 1833/Leonard abt 1833/Oliahana? (female) abt 1830/

Henry abt 1819/Eve abt 1830 (wife of Henry as I found them in the Census ) and Francis Cooper b abt 1800 , now this I think is the Francis Cooper brother of Matty Cooper as Matty mentions a brother Francis going to America several times when talking to Charles Leland ,and making alot of money !

As no relationships are mentioned on the ships log in this instance one has to guess as to what Cooper Henry belongs ? I think Elisha is the son of Elisha and Caroline but why arnt they on the list? or did they follow later? Or could he be yet another Elisha ? Patience Cooper who later married Richard Stanley in America said in a newspaper article:-

“SHADY HOLLOW BROOKLYN

I am Reginald Cooper gypsy she replied I am 7th daughter of 7th generation born and raised in a tent but a short remove from London My Aunt Eliza Cooper told fortunes for Royal Family and received valuable presents from them , Queen Victoria came to my Aunts Tent and it was there she learned she would become Queen of England. My Aunt was a great palmist never used cards she never told fortunes on a Sabbath I am here as a girl aged 15 with my Uncle and grandfather and at an early age married Richard Stanley he comes from a famous gypsy family tribe of England my name since then is Patience Stanley, Jack Cooper the middle weight champion of England is my own blood cousin .

I have seven children, yonder stands my wagon it cost $500 ,Bessie my daughter sleeps in it and was born in Baltimore and will take her mother's place someday when she's gone. I came here when I was 15 with my uncle and grandfather old Gentilla Cooper was my great Aunt she was a famous gypsy fortune teller of Devil's dyke near Brighton.

  . Now fighting Jack (John) Cooper was the son of Elisha and Truffeni and so this would seem to tally up with her statement, however I have yet to find a Patience or Regenia Cooper as she once referred to herself but as she said she was now called Patience Stanley as she married very young to Richard Stanley and there is a Patience Cooper the right age daughter of Dukey Cooper who has also been suggested as father of Stumpy Jack? T. W. Thompson's Papers at the Bodleian Library, Oxford gives Dukey as son of a ? Cooper and Truffeni Lovall, We now know that it was Elisha or “Lusha” Cooper.

Another reference to a Lusha Cooper was in a verse of Romanes that the reporter said to Patience ,unfortunately the page is very faint and I have put what I think the words are but one has to be open minded as Romanes was often spelt how a individual thought it was spelt from the pronunciation

and another little snippet that adds weight to this theory, is that when Patience is preparing to read his fortune,the reporter starts to say a verse in romanes ,as the article was very hard to read and some words I could not make out but the ones that I did manage to read were:-

 “Lusha Cooper kaka kauloratt ??tute le lova di miri Coopers.miri d?? pens diridye rummered a much navvered? Stanley was adora? Stanley as leled kellin to kurin booths paste? London bridge si tute adre Anglaterra “

Patience arose and said to him “For the first time in my life as a Gypsy I give you old Gentillas Cooper’s blessing” I have given it to no one else since it was given to me., the reporter replies to her “ that was the famous fortune teller of the Devils dyke near Brighton”.”Yes”, she said eargerly.”How do you know that? She was my great aunt, he bade her good night “Cushta radi “.

 It would seem from the above story that her Aunt Eliza could be Eliza wife of Matthias Cooper “The Royal rat catcher “ as Gentilla Cooper of the Devil’s Dyke fame was Mattys sister that is certain, therefore Reginald ? (but in other articles she refers to herself as Patience) would have been his brothers daughter(unless a sisters daughter but I think not) but the problem is that often as was the custom many older relatives were called aunt or uncle when in fact they were not ! it was a term of respect used for the elder members of the tribe ,that they were related is definite but at this moment with out more information I am unsure wether the grandfather she mentions is Elisha (Lusha)Cooper who was in fact Matthias uncle his father’s brother, and so would make patience Mattys 2nd cousin (I think!) but if there was a large age gap then to call him Uncle would also be acceptable!! So If Gypsy Jack was her uncle ,then Elisha was her grandfather. Yet another possibility is that the grandfather she mentions could of course be her maternal grandfather?. If this was the case then Matty would have been her uncle and the uncle she says brought her to America could be Mattys brother Francis who is mentioned in Charles Leland book ,where Matty recounts to Leland that “my brother Francis has been several times to America and made a lot of money.

1851 Census., HO107-1540-326-33 Bethnal Green, Middlesex.

Dukey Cooper48 Hanaday Hill, MiddlesexHead Labourer

Eliza Cooper33 Chingford, Essex, EnglandWife Coster

Dellerifer Cooper14 Woodford, Essex, EnglandDaughter

Solomon Cooper12 Woodford, Essex, EnglandSon

John Cooper10 Stepney, Middlesex, EnglandSon

Elizabeth Cooper3 Wanstead, Essex, EnglandDaughter

Patience Cooper1 Mile End, Middlesex, EnglandDaughter

Frustratingly I have not found another census or record with Dukey in unless he used another first name ?

But also I have yet to find any children again? Did they go to America?

Interestingly on Oct 4th 1858 on the Ship Constellation

is a family of Scamps with a child Regenia ,along with Elisha and Defiance(Caroline) Cooper ,so the Cooper children must have returned to England and are now going back with their parents , see details below:-

John Scamp 35 England

Lucy scamp 38 wife

Thomas scamp 55 Tinman

Joshua Scamp 7

John scamp 6

James scamp 4

Chandries scamp 3 male

Reginia scamp 11 female (Could this be the Patience Cooper and she was using her mothers name when talking to the papers? Which would mean Lucy was a Cooper ? but I have no record of a Lucy fror this Cooper Line but its possible as I do not have all the Siblings)

Elisha Cooper 37 brazier

Defiance Cooper 33 wife

Perrin Cooper 15 male

Epsy Cooper 7 female

Mary Cooper 5

Elisha Cooper 4

Louisa Cooper 3

Seth Cooper 17 ( this is the son of Henry and Eve Cooper)

Henry Cooper 1

Nelson Cooper 1

John jones 40 coppersmith

Mary 39

The Elisha b 1821 is I think the son of Elisha b 1795 which brings us yet again to Matty Cooper and as ever Stumpy Jack!

When looking at the ships list and seeing the above Scamps it rang a bell with an article I had read many years ago concerning the Gypsies that were around the Hampshire Dorset area and had given examples of the Romany Language to a member of the Gypsy Lore Society, at the time I did not see the significance of the names but as time goes on more and more are beginning to fit into the large jig-saw of Romany families that married into one another ! one such person caught my eye as I have stated before I have always felt that Stumpy Jack (John)Cooper came from the Windsor Cooper line ,and on seeing the name Selina Hughes I at once took notes as the name has come down through the family and is still in use to-day ,and also because many of the Cooper and Hughes family in Dorset and bordering Counties use both names as do some of the Well’s family to explain why I have looked at the info again by chance I remembered reading about Matty Cooper saying how he had rode 8 miles to be at the bedside of his nephew Job Cooper and his wife Selina so I immediately thought of this story below :-

In Charles Lelands book ( Matty Cooper was speaking of his nephew Job who died of the small pox and describes how Matty rode the 8 miles on horse from Hampton Court to be at Job's side, Mattys sisters also were at his bedside when he died .Selena ,Job's wife and their children remained outside as they had not had the small pox. It is possible Selina later married a south country Hughes.

 I think that this is the "aged Selina Hughes" who is in the notes from Romani Gleanings (JGLS) and if I am correct she wed Christopher Hughes, but all her children were Coopers as she had married Christopher late in her life !!So as she was also in Dorset and Hants another good inkling for relationship to Stumpy!. It also says all but 1 of her children had either died or emigrated to America along with Wells and Buckland and Boswell families amongst others including the Posh-Ratt Palmer family who are also related by marriage to the same Cooper family , in fact it has been suggested but not proved that Stumpy could be the son of Oliver Cooper who married first Genty Palmer sister to Noah Palmer that married Britannia Cooper daughter of Nelson Cooper (brother to Matty) and Isabella Smith .The Palmers are in several census records in America ,but as yet I have not come across Noah and Britannia ,although they also went to Ireland where Noah Palmer ran a Hotel in Waterford he travelled back and forth and without going into detail ,on one occasion he came back from a trip and caught Britannia in a compromising situation and and shot her ! after this he fled back to England and his son gave him an ultimatum ,you have killed my mother now either you kill yourself or I will do it for you !apparently he tried but some say he did not succeed and ended his life in an institution, I have not followed this up, so am only quoting

From an article that appeared in the JGLS.

 Oliver’s second wife being Lavinia Lee. But I digress!! Back to the chapter regarding Selina!

""Quote""ROMANI GLEANINGS 1917 or 1924?

Though there is more Cooper Romani than any other in our present list pride of place for quality must be given to the twenty-five or so words which the honorary Secretary noted from a very aged Selina Hughes nee Lee, who was camping with her nephew Bob hughes at Totton,some four miles from Southampton in the direction of Lyndhurst. Born near Salisbury about eighty-seven years ago, Selina had traversed South Wilts and Hants again and again; with her parents Dick Lee and Fiance Scamp .the latter a near kinswoman of the famous Josiah Scamp buried at Odstock; with her first husband, a Cooper related, though not very closely to Joshua the "Forest King". with her second husband ,, Christopher Hughes ,whom she married late in life ;and latterly with nephews of Christopher -- her own children ,all Coopers save one having without exception either gone to America or died early. She was, however almost as well acquainted with the South-West of England, of which her parents and her Cooper husband had been fond; whilst both early and late in her life she had often spent two or three months in Sussex, Kent and Surrey. Considering her age her memory and hearing were remarkably.

but she was half crippled with rheumatism, and in some danger of losing her sight and because of these physical infirmities her nephews wished her to settle. Indeed they had gone so far as to buy her a house at Salisbury ; a house with a big yard attached where they proposed to stay in the winter and where there would be travellers all year round. Yet even this well-gilded pill Selina refused to swallow, so the house had been sold again and she was still on the roads.""

The article also mentions a middled age Joe Lee and a elderly half blood Lee Sam Rose who was married to a daughter of blind Solomon Stanley of Sholing Common. Joe Lee called himself a Portsmouth Lee adding however that his old people used to be in the New Forest a great deal, he himself liked to winter in Portsmouth and journey Londonwards and back through Sussex in the spring and early summer, and also visit the Isel of Wight in the for a few weeks during the height of the season there, and then go up to the hopfields round Alton. Some say he is related to Hezekiah's lot , meaning the offspring of Wester Lee's cousin Hezekiah, by a Emily lee who certainly did not belong to the same Kentish-Metropolitan family as her husband, and who has been recorded as a Sussex Lee. Sam Rose whoever his Lee mother may have been, was also well acquainted with Portsmouth and with North Hants,West Sussex and Surrey,as well as the New Forest"