Hi, gosh what a mess......

I am trying to trace my grandfathers family......all I know is that he was born 29 8 1901 in Stockport, and died in Doncaster 31 march 1988.

His mothers name was Hetty...or Hettie....we dont know if Boswell was her maiden name....or he married name....or that she just took her partners name.....!!! it turns out that his father was not BOSWELL but YARWOOD.....Because his birh was not registerd till he died....I am drawing a blank!!! All I know is that they were the 1st of the family to settle maybe in Stockport.

If there is any light at the end of this tunnel, PLEASE PLEASE direct me to it!!!

Many Thabks and reguards Gail.

Hi everyone

Just an update on the Romnchel DNA project.

5 Locke's and 1 Bailey are in the project now.

All Romany / Gypsy / Traveler family's regardless where you now live, are invited to join us in this project.

Why speculate who we are or where we come from any longer? We have this technology available to us now, we can take the guess work out of our family's history. By comparing our DNA to other peoples world wide, we can find the answers we all seek, who are we and where did we come from.

Men and Ladies are welcome to join the project. We can do the research ourselves by getting each of our family's involved in DNA testing.

There are many things to learned, but we must do it ourselves and not rely on others to do the DNA studies for us.

Why continue guessing if we come from India or Pakistan or Iran? We can find our own answers through this project, and through this project we can compare our DNA to other Romany / Gypsy / Travelers DNA through out Europe. We can find our own answers and come to our own conclusions and not rely on others to do the research for us. We as a people can do our own DNA study!

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/

Don't be scared of new technology my friends, embrace it as a new tool to help us better understand who our ancestors were and where they came from.

20/4/08

To Stephen Doe (& Donald Locke )

RE: R&TFHS -Romany Routes March 2008 Vol 8 # 6 Page 319 From Viking Long Boat to Gypsy Caravan: Part 1

Hello Stephen

I have seen your name on this site so thought I would contact your re: your artical and DNA results showing a link to Viking heritage.

My Dad (surname Lee) has had his DNA Mitachondria done for both his paternal & maternal lines .

My Dad hails from on his paternal side Lee (his father) and Dighton & Cooper (his fathers mother side) lines /surnames. On his maternal side is Ackleton , Davis & Page . The maternal line coming from the Page surname. Both family lines (his father & mother) have always been travelers (Gypsies) coming from Kent England.

His mothers maternal line reveals that his mother (an Ackleton surname but with a direct maternal line of Page) shared the same DNA as the poor old 'Ice Man' that was killed in the Alps that they found a few years ago! Obviously her maternal line shared a same common ancestor from that region where the 'Ice Man' came from.

His father's paternal line (Lee as far back as we know) revealed that he had a 'mutation' gene on it which reflected a Viking /Scandanavian hertitage as well. This was a real suprise to us! I do not know the exact sequence of Haplo-group -as I would have to 'dig out the result's to be more specific for you both.

Do you know if ever the Doe & Lee families were related at some stage way back in the past? As far as we know we have always been Lee Gypsies for about 250yrs ~ according to our 'oral history pasted down on the Lee side'. - his fathers line.

I thought the article was really interesting and very informative and wish you and Donald Locke goodluck with the DNA project. It would be good to see where the traveler families roots come form 'originally', and there potential route fof migration through Europe and into Britain & Ireland (etc).

Kushti Bok -and hope you get this email? I was going to write to you via the R&TFHS -but saw your name here and there on the query page & guest book page. No doubt the Romany Gene 'grapevine' will let you know I have posted this here for you!

Cheers

Elizabeth (Lee) Visser -Perth Western Australia

Hi Elizabeth

When you get the time, would you mind digging out the DNA test results papers, Y and mtDNA and email me what Haplo Groups were found?

I am also interested in knowing what company was used.

lockeroots@comcast.net

Same goes for anyone else who has already tested, I would love to hear about your test results.

Thanks

Don

Shaw Family in Lincolnshire

Hi,

I am currently researching my family history.

My great, great, great grandfather was Elijah Shaw, married at some time to Ann Hall. Possibly in Lincolnshire, his occupation on son Aaron's Marriage Certificate in 1875 is that of hawker (deceased).

His son is Aaron Shaw born 13/10/1843 in Market Deeping lincolnshire, he was also a Hawker initially and then settled in Horncastle and became an Optician and spectacle maker. I note from Aaron's marriage certifiacate that he was a widower when he married margaret Burke in 1875.

There has always been 'family history that they were from a Romany family, there is also a family story that they came from ireland , so not sure!

I would be really interested to hear from you if you have any more info.

Census returns have not been particularly helpful, I am wondering if they were 'travelling' at those times.

best wishes,

Katrina.

hello stephen,

I am David Doe from worcestershire, my father was John Doe son of Maurice and Daisy Doe and Maurice was son of Francis and Alice Doe

would you please get in contact to see how we are related as there is another lot of Does which you have not included.

You also mentioned Jack and Pheobe Doe jack is my grandads brother. look forward to hearing from you thanks David Doe

kushty divvas to you, what a fantastic site your's is, the best iv'e ever come across, dont seem to be messages from down this way though, or much about the scamps, i have a couple of old photoes and stories of my great great grandfather gilderoy and his wife kitty, but im new toall this so how to i get them to you so they can go on your site? wolud like to know if you have the time to tell me, kushty bok. tony.

Hi David,

I know quite alot about your side of the Doe family, Francis and alice was my grandads Great aunt and uncle, my email address is stevendoe@hotmail.com, please feel free to get in touch and i can help you out, look forward to hearing from you, kushti bok, stephen doe

I just uploaded the Romany DNA project this morning for you who maybe interested.

The site is still under construction, so bear with me while I spruce it up a bit.

Donald Locke

http://home.comcast.net/~GypsyDNA/RomanyDNAproject.html

OUR HISTORY - WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW

YouTube - Celine Dion Andrea Bocelli The prayer Gypsy Holocaust.

This film was made by a friend. Film contains information and images about the Gypsy Holocaust. Warning - contains upsetting images not suitable for children.

Sorry - must have done something wrong as the link didn't show the first time. Trying again

OUR HISTORY - WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW

YouTube - Celine Dion Andrea Bocelli The prayer Gypsy Holocaust.

This film was made by a friend. Film contains information and images about the Gypsy Holocaust. Warning - contains upsetting images not suitable for children.

Hello any one out there! I have just been given this sites details and on first glance it seems a good site for everyone to help each other out with details,i my self am from the Boswell family from southshore Blackpool,my grt grt grandparents were Edward and Sarah Boswell and my grt grandfather was Tobias Boswell,i would love to hear fom anyone with any thing that could help me in my search for them.Best wishes Lisa Boswell

To Lisa Boswell

have you looked on here ?

http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/GypsyCensus61.html

i hope it helps you.

be lucky

Mary

hello

i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas

hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.

sally

hello

i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas

hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.

sally

hello

i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas

hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.

sally

Sally do you mean Barhomalew (as in first name?)Smith. And need you to jog my memory!!

What a dleightful surprise to find your site. I was doing geneology on the Barrett family and through many many site chases I found myself on your site where I found reference to a couple of Barretts. I kno wso little about your people and their history that I have followed link to link reading about your origins - only briefly. What an interesting people you are and how rich your history. I would love to learn more.

Out here in the Western Cape of South Africa no one knows anything about your people. This is sad. Are their any real Romany Gypsey people in South Africa?

I shall certainly follow up with more reading. I sincerely hope your young people do not lose their unique language and culture. With petrol prices and fossil fuel going where it seems to be going, I beleive we will all soon be learning survival methods from Gyseys and cultures like yours.

Really nice meeting you.

Sincerely

Bev Barrett

Overberg

Cape Town

Thank you so much Beverley thats a lovely message and much apreciated glad you enjoyed the site .!!Now then theres a question any Rom in

South Africa ??will have to look into that !!! Kushti Bokt (Good luck)

I just found your great web site. Although not Romany /Romanichael myself, I look forward to learning about your fascinating culure. Cheers

I was so happy when i found this site, i hope you can help me find the people i am looking for and if nothing else there is ALOT of really interesting information and piccies to look through. I am sure if people took the time to read this they would be alot more open minded. Its fantastic!! Anyway keep up the good work folks......i will definately be coming back.

Hello All, my name is Chris Penfold Brown, Sue has put my little book on this kushti site, I was so pleased with that. I went to london in April to the BBC boardcasting house, to protest about the BBC axeing Rokker Radio, there was'nt as many there as we hoped, but the report on Rokker Radio 2 weeks ago, made it sound like there was loads of us there, so that was good, it will continue until Dec 08.

Also I'm interested to know if the Abraham Boswell, in the Boswell section, is the brother of Maria Boswell that married Christopher Penfold (my Granfer ) in 1910.

Bokt to All Chris.

Great Site

I'am Robert Cooper and live outside Memphis TN . I'am Romany and so is my wife who is also a cooper. we have many fokie at Elm Wood Cematery my father,grandad,many uncles and cuzs about 150 also there are Boswell,Small,Worton,Harrision.

Trying to find out about my great grandad Iheard he was a jockey and mered on a gryer he had two sons Rodell Cooper and Clarance Cooper

Rodell had 3 sons Walter,John,Tom all in heaven. Clarance my grandad had two sons Bobby and David.

Thanks

Robert

PS . If you want I'll e-mail you some pics of Elm Wood

Hi Robert glad you like the site and yes please would love some pics of Elmwood also have you looked on the new USA site theres alink on my homepage on this site need some "inside "info on the folki who made the leap abroad!! any info would be great do you know who your Coopers were who came from England?

Hi, I have just found this web site, my aunt and I have been looking back over our family tree and our grandfather name was jack cooper, my grandma Maggie traveled in a wagon in IL, his was patience cooper, we have no pictures of him. my grandma or bothers or sisters didnt have any either. Maybe someone ouy there might know of him and have one

Hi, I have just found this web site, my aunt and I have been looking back over our family tree and our grandfather name was jack cooper, my grandma Maggie traveled in a wagon in IL, his was patience cooper, we have no pictures of him. my grandma or bothers or sisters didnt have any either. Maybe someone ouy there might know of him and have one

if anyone is having trouble finding there family.try going on the site gipsies passing through by jackie blackman{nee cooper}it has helped me with my cooper side of the family as has romany genes with the ackleton side of my family a kushti site.linda

Hi all, good luck with all your research. kushti site. i am trying to trace my family history but seem to be getting nowhere fast. My grandmother was Rosanne Hedges her sister Eliza married a Hughes from Chatham i think. thier father was Henry Hedges. Rosanne was married to William Thomas ( Bill ) Giddins I think he was also known as Gorman who had a brother Burt Giddins also from Chatham . I think my nan was born in Sheppy. George Hedges her brother had cherry orchards in Iwade i think. Its so confusing but you've got to start somewhere.

Tricia

Rosanne ( Annie ) Giddins nee Hedges. William Giddins (Gorman ) sorry forgot to say they were probably born late 1890s or early 1900. Thanks Trica

Linda, I would like to thank you for the site you suggested it helped alot. I still can't find where Edward Stanleys parents came from , he had a daughter, Patience my (my great-mother) in Painted Post, NY, she had a sisters Nora,Maggie, Georgenia and brother Tom their mothers name was Betsy Harrison they traveled to Salem,IL ( Joles,Stanleys,Coopers) my g-g-granparents were Matte and Miranda Cooper( I dont know Mirandas maiden name),but their childern were John "Jack"(g-g grandpa), Mariah,Ollie cooper, Dinah Jeffery, Bessie,Willie,Stanley Cooper. So if anyone has anymore information please contact me at melissa_holmes_618@comcast.net.

Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/

Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/

Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/

What a wonderful website,I have been on here ages,reding the wonderful stories and looking at the beautiful pictures.The site is a credit to you.

With Love

Hugh x

Thanks Hugh what a lovely message ,I do try to make it "look nice" as well as lots of info glad you liked it and thankyou.

Hello siteowner,ive just found this site and i think its great that we can look at lots of history of gypsys and how they use to live,my nan was a true gypsy,and told me many storys when i was a nipper,things like we were related to the true gypsy rose lee,ive posted a note to ask if ther is any info on her state funeral,heres hoping for a reply,thanks Terry.

Congratulations on a very interesting site. My interest in New Forest gypsies is connected to my late father in law Alfred Thorne 1889-1967. He was a saddler in Fording bridge and had many gypsy friends who would come to his shop to have letters written or read to them. He is mentioned in Wanderers in the New Forest by Juliette de baracli levy and my husband can remember her coming into the shop and how unusual her clothes were for Fordingbridge! I was at school at Breamore with several gypsies who walked all the way from Millersford Bottom. If anyone whocomes to this site remembers Mr Thorne the saddler at Fordingbridge I would be very pleased.

Hi

A wonderful site with lots of info. Well done!! I am looking for information on Bath's, Calladines and Hoults/Holts. They are families that married into each other and were Travellers.

Be grateful for any info anyone as.

Really confusing lot.

Thanks

Got some interesting news to report. I pushed for a new Deep Clade SNP test back in April 2008 and got my wishes.

15 men in Y Haplo Group H, which included several Romany men, volenteered to pay in advance to have this new Deep Clade SNP test be created. Today some of the test results came in.

The new SNP test was intended to help break down Haplo H in to smaller sub groups, and it did exactly that today. Men from India, Pakistan, England, USA were involved in this trial testing.

The British Romany men who participated in this trial testing, were previously in Y Haplo Group H.

After the Deep Clade SNP test, we are now in Y Haplo H1a.

The Rom surnames involved included Locke, Campbell, Carter, Bailey, and all are in Haplo H1a now.

That is a very important step which will one day help identify which specific people in India and Pakistan the European Roms likely descended from.

The trial testing is now over, and this new Deep Clade SNP test is now available to the general public who are in Y Haplo Group H*. So all future DNA participants who are found to be in this rare DNA group, which is also found among some Romany men, now have the option to order this new test.

Now knowing the proven and suspected Romany descendants are all in Y Haplo H1a, gives us far more information then we had in the past. So regardless our surnames, the Roms who are involved in DNA testing, now know we all share very similar DNA at a much deeper level then we knew about previously. That is very exciting news!

This new SNP test has also helped exclude some men of India, who are now greatly distanced from the British Rom descendants, and at the same time showed us that some men of India and Pakistan are also in H1a. That is a very important piece of the puzzle because the Indian and Pakistani tribal histories of the men in H1a may one day help explain the Romany migration to Europe.

This was but a small step today, but a big leep in our knowledge in Rom male DNA.

Donald Locke

hello sally. yes indeed the callindines, baths and holts were Gypsies. they married into the ireland/hibbs families. which are my granddads family. you are very right they are a confusing lot . please get in touch with me as we may be able to help eachother . my cousin is a callindine and she lives at woksop she is very interested in family research selinax

LOVE THIS SIGHT. MY FATHER CAME ACROS IT AND TOLD THE REST OF THE FAMILY. MY GRANDMOTHER WAS TERRISS LEE A WELL KNOWN FORTUNE TELLER IN IRELAND. HER FATHER TRAVELLED HERE FROM WALES I'M LOOKING INTO WRITING A BOOK ABOUT HER ALL IN GOOD TIME. LOVE SEEING THE LANGUAGE WROTE DOWN NOW I CAN PICK UP ON ALL I'VE FORGOTTEN SINCE SHE DIED.. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

LOVE THIS SIGHT. MY FATHER CAME ACROS IT AND TOLD THE REST OF THE FAMILY. MY GRANDMOTHER WAS TERRISS LEE A WELL KNOWN FORTUNE TELLER IN IRELAND. HER FATHER TRAVELLED HERE FROM WALES I'M LOOKING INTO WRITING A BOOK ABOUT HER ALL IN GOOD TIME. LOVE SEEING THE LANGUAGE WROTE DOWN NOW I CAN PICK UP ON ALL I'VE FORGOTTEN SINCE SHE DIED.. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Thanks Nikki glad you liked the site and glad your dad told the rest of the family!!! let me know if you get round to writing that Book !! Kushti Bokt.

Dear Site owner,

Very interesting site. I dont know if my ancestor was a gypsy but he was called Bartholomew Jordan and he came to England from Ireland and on every census return I have found him on he is listed as a hawker.

Can you give me any ideas please? Many Thanks

fabulous site, very informative and well put together... my family were directly Lees and Boswells my gt gt gt aunt was Urania Lee (Boswell) daugher of Gypst Sarah of Devils Dyke, Urania was wife of Levi Boswell... thank you again for creating such a beautiful website with something for everyone..

Hi

My name is Nicki Staddon(nee Scott).

I have been researching our family tree,and was delighted to find your site. The majority of my fathers ancestors were gypsies from Dorset and Hampshire , a lot settling at Thorney Hill Bransgore.

My parents are Michael Scott 1944- 2002 and Sheila Scott(neeBest 1940- )

Michaels parents were James Scott (1918-1942) and Kathleen Burton (1917-1951)

The Scott side goes as follows :-

James Scotts parents were Henry Scott(1875- 1956 ) and Ellen Wells (1881-1956)

Henrys Scotts parents were George Scott(1855-1931) and Elizabeth Jeff (1855-1938)Ellens parents were William Wells(1831-1903)and Eliza Bland or Jeff (1833-1883)

George Scotts parents wereHenry Scott(1829-1908) and Sarah Corbin (1829-1902)Elizabeths parents were Matthew Jeff (1816- ) and Elizabeth (1818 - )

Henry Scotts parents were William Scott (1799- 1874) and Sarah Brown(1799-1837) Sarah corbins parents were George Corbin (1801-1849) and Hester Brown (1804-1893)

The Burton side goes as Follows :-

Kathleen Burtons parents were Thomas Burton (1888-1962) and Daisy White (1893-1968)

Thomas Burtons parents were John Burton(1862- ) and Jane Pateman(1863- ) Daisy parents were George White (1869- ) and Louisa Thorn( 1869- )

George Whites parents were Albert White (1841- ) and Fanny Ellen Dean (1847-1878)Louisa Thorns parents were Charles Thorn (1837- ) and Betsy Edwards 9 1841- )

Johns Burtons parents were Unknown father and Anne Burton . Jane Patemans parents were William (1825- ) and Mary (1829-

Daisy White my great grandma is on the photo showing the flower sellers in Bournemouth, we also have this photo. Although because my fathers mother and father died very young and he was bought up by Daisy and Thomas ,we dont have many photos or tales to tell.

I have therefore found you site extremely facinating and gained a great deal of information from it, and would love to learn more. Look forward to hearing from you soon

Regards Nicki

hi, just wanted to say hello to maurice barr. his grandfather was initially married to my great aunt charlotte birch, picture in birches page. still love the site. love jackiexxxxx

Hi all, am doing my family tree.

Some of the names are;

for SMITHS; Jasper, Derby, Minty, Alfred, Charlotte, Levi, James, Nelson, Emily, May

for COOPERS; Eliza, Patience, Uni, Ambrose, Amy, William (Bundle)

for LEE'S Charlotte (Lottie), Chris, Clive, Harry/Henry

for DEAKINS Amy, Rebecca, Britannia (Polly), Leonard, Rose, Alfred, Thomas

for FRANKLINS Rachel, Richard, Thomas, Job, Eliza, Lydia, James, Abraham, Lucy

for BELDEN Lucy

Also PIDGLEYS, DIXIE'S, HEARNS ...

I'd love to hear from anyone who might recognise these names!

Thanks for reading - love the site by the way!

Lindsey (marlloco@hotmail.co.uk)

P.S. All from LONDON area, travelling mainly around Surrey/Sussex area (mainly Epsom/Mitcham). - But they did also go beyond these areas...

I have been reading this site with great interest. I am writing an article for a writing course and I was asked to produce a piece of work from a subject I have an interest in. I have been facinated by the Romany way of life for a long time and found your site along with others to be mesmerising, particularly the beautiful photographs. Your culture could teach us all a thing or two about how to live a decent life whether it be inside a house or in a trailer. Many thanks.

Hi I just started searching for the boswell family and came across this site. I find the site very interesting,

So far in my search I have found my father Samson Howard Boswell baptised in Shardlow 1920, my grandfather John Boswell (known as Jonnie) born 1876 Shardlow, My ggrandfather Samson Boswell, married to carolinea Boswell, also my great uncle Nelson. Would like to hear from anyone who is connected to this line of Boswell's.

Linda