Please feel free to leave a message or contact me about anything on the web site,be it to ask about the data or to correct me if I have made a mistake about a Ancestor of yours ? I try and check all my records with the original Sources but when told orally by a relative or member of the mentioned family I have to rely on their own account and memories and with so many years that have passed in between, people can innocently get things confused and maybe attribute the wrong sibling to a particular family which I am sure you will know if you have done family history yourself. I have many more records of Travelling families but it would be impossible to put all I have on the web pages time alone would not permit for one thing!but also later records are still private unless the Individual give's their permission so if you are a personal relative of the person or family concerned then please feel free to contact me Kushti Bokt.
Please scroll to the bottom of the page and click the button on the bottom far right to add your comments or questions. Also click small button on top right hand side for the full details .
Hi
A wonderful site with lots of info. Well done!! I am looking for information on Bath's, Calladines and Hoults/Holts. They are families that married into each other and were Travellers.
Be grateful for any info anyone as.
Really confusing lot.
Thanks
Congratulations on a very interesting site. My interest in New Forest gypsies is connected to my late father in law Alfred Thorne 1889-1967. He was a saddler in Fording bridge and had many gypsy friends who would come to his shop to have letters written or read to them. He is mentioned in Wanderers in the New Forest by Juliette de baracli levy and my husband can remember her coming into the shop and how unusual her clothes were for Fordingbridge! I was at school at Breamore with several gypsies who walked all the way from Millersford Bottom. If anyone whocomes to this site remembers Mr Thorne the saddler at Fordingbridge I would be very pleased.
Hello siteowner,ive just found this site and i think its great that we can look at lots of history of gypsys and how they use to live,my nan was a true gypsy,and told me many storys when i was a nipper,things like we were related to the true gypsy rose lee,ive posted a note to ask if ther is any info on her state funeral,heres hoping for a reply,thanks Terry.
Thanks Hugh what a lovely message ,I do try to make it "look nice" as well as lots of info glad you liked it and thankyou.
What a wonderful website,I have been on here ages,reding the wonderful stories and looking at the beautiful pictures.The site is a credit to you.
With Love
Hugh x
Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/
Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/
Hi i really enjoy your site. I was wondering if you have any information on the Jeffrey's or the Pearce's. My Great grandfather on my moms side was John Peace and my great grandmother was Beatrice Matilda Wells. On my dads side my Great grand father was Isaiah Jeffrey i do not know his wifes name. Then my dads grandpa on his moms side is William Wells and i do not know his wifes name. so i know its not a lot of information but i will get more from my mother. Any help at all will be greatful. Thank You/
Linda, I would like to thank you for the site you suggested it helped alot. I still can't find where Edward Stanleys parents came from , he had a daughter, Patience my (my great-mother) in Painted Post, NY, she had a sisters Nora,Maggie, Georgenia and brother Tom their mothers name was Betsy Harrison they traveled to Salem,IL ( Joles,Stanleys,Coopers) my g-g-granparents were Matte and Miranda Cooper( I dont know Mirandas maiden name),but their childern were John "Jack"(g-g grandpa), Mariah,Ollie cooper, Dinah Jeffery, Bessie,Willie,Stanley Cooper. So if anyone has anymore information please contact me at melissa_holmes_618@comcast.net.
Rosanne ( Annie ) Giddins nee Hedges. William Giddins (Gorman ) sorry forgot to say they were probably born late 1890s or early 1900. Thanks Trica
Hi all, good luck with all your research. kushti site. i am trying to trace my family history but seem to be getting nowhere fast. My grandmother was Rosanne Hedges her sister Eliza married a Hughes from Chatham i think. thier father was Henry Hedges. Rosanne was married to William Thomas ( Bill ) Giddins I think he was also known as Gorman who had a brother Burt Giddins also from Chatham . I think my nan was born in Sheppy. George Hedges her brother had cherry orchards in Iwade i think. Its so confusing but you've got to start somewhere.
Tricia
if anyone is having trouble finding there family.try going on the site gipsies passing through by jackie blackman{nee cooper}it has helped me with my cooper side of the family as has romany genes with the ackleton side of my family a kushti site.linda
Hi, I have just found this web site, my aunt and I have been looking back over our family tree and our grandfather name was jack cooper, my grandma Maggie traveled in a wagon in IL, his was patience cooper, we have no pictures of him. my grandma or bothers or sisters didnt have any either. Maybe someone ouy there might know of him and have one
Hi, I have just found this web site, my aunt and I have been looking back over our family tree and our grandfather name was jack cooper, my grandma Maggie traveled in a wagon in IL, his was patience cooper, we have no pictures of him. my grandma or bothers or sisters didnt have any either. Maybe someone ouy there might know of him and have one
Hi Robert glad you like the site and yes please would love some pics of Elmwood also have you looked on the new USA site theres alink on my homepage on this site need some "inside "info on the folki who made the leap abroad!! any info would be great do you know who your Coopers were who came from England?
Great Site
I'am Robert Cooper and live outside Memphis TN . I'am Romany and so is my wife who is also a cooper. we have many fokie at Elm Wood Cematery my father,grandad,many uncles and cuzs about 150 also there are Boswell,Small,Worton,Harrision.
Trying to find out about my great grandad Iheard he was a jockey and mered on a gryer he had two sons Rodell Cooper and Clarance Cooper
Rodell had 3 sons Walter,John,Tom all in heaven. Clarance my grandad had two sons Bobby and David.
Thanks
Robert
PS . If you want I'll e-mail you some pics of Elm Wood
Hello All, my name is Chris Penfold Brown, Sue has put my little book on this kushti site, I was so pleased with that. I went to london in April to the BBC boardcasting house, to protest about the BBC axeing Rokker Radio, there was'nt as many there as we hoped, but the report on Rokker Radio 2 weeks ago, made it sound like there was loads of us there, so that was good, it will continue until Dec 08.
Also I'm interested to know if the Abraham Boswell, in the Boswell section, is the brother of Maria Boswell that married Christopher Penfold (my Granfer ) in 1910.
Bokt to All Chris.
I was so happy when i found this site, i hope you can help me find the people i am looking for and if nothing else there is ALOT of really interesting information and piccies to look through. I am sure if people took the time to read this they would be alot more open minded. Its fantastic!! Anyway keep up the good work folks......i will definately be coming back.
I just found your great web site. Although not Romany /Romanichael myself, I look forward to learning about your fascinating culure. Cheers
Thank you so much Beverley thats a lovely message and much apreciated glad you enjoyed the site .!!Now then theres a question any Rom in
South Africa ??will have to look into that !!! Kushti Bokt (Good luck)
What a dleightful surprise to find your site. I was doing geneology on the Barrett family and through many many site chases I found myself on your site where I found reference to a couple of Barretts. I kno wso little about your people and their history that I have followed link to link reading about your origins - only briefly. What an interesting people you are and how rich your history. I would love to learn more.
Out here in the Western Cape of South Africa no one knows anything about your people. This is sad. Are their any real Romany Gypsey people in South Africa?
I shall certainly follow up with more reading. I sincerely hope your young people do not lose their unique language and culture. With petrol prices and fossil fuel going where it seems to be going, I beleive we will all soon be learning survival methods from Gyseys and cultures like yours.
Really nice meeting you.
Sincerely
Bev Barrett
Overberg
Cape Town
Sally do you mean Barhomalew (as in first name?)Smith. And need you to jog my memory!!
hello
i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas
hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.
sally
hello
i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas
hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.
sally
hello
i am a distant cousin from tx and wondering if you know anything about the bartholomew smiths desendents living in arkansas
hoping you will anwer, if you remember you wrote to me some years back.
sally
To Lisa Boswell
have you looked on here ?
http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/GypsyCensus61.html
i hope it helps you.
be lucky
Mary
Hello any one out there! I have just been given this sites details and on first glance it seems a good site for everyone to help each other out with details,i my self am from the Boswell family from southshore Blackpool,my grt grt grandparents were Edward and Sarah Boswell and my grt grandfather was Tobias Boswell,i would love to hear fom anyone with any thing that could help me in my search for them.Best wishes Lisa Boswell
Sorry - must have done something wrong as the link didn't show the first time. Trying again
OUR HISTORY - WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW
YouTube - Celine Dion Andrea Bocelli The prayer Gypsy Holocaust.
This film was made by a friend. Film contains information and images about the Gypsy Holocaust. Warning - contains upsetting images not suitable for children.
OUR HISTORY - WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW
YouTube - Celine Dion Andrea Bocelli The prayer Gypsy Holocaust.
This film was made by a friend. Film contains information and images about the Gypsy Holocaust. Warning - contains upsetting images not suitable for children.
I just uploaded the Romany DNA project this morning for you who maybe interested.
The site is still under construction, so bear with me while I spruce it up a bit.
Donald Locke
http://home.comcast.net/~GypsyDNA/RomanyDNAproject.html
Hi David,
I know quite alot about your side of the Doe family, Francis and alice was my grandads Great aunt and uncle, my email address is stevendoe@hotmail.com, please feel free to get in touch and i can help you out, look forward to hearing from you, kushti bok, stephen doe
kushty divvas to you, what a fantastic site your's is, the best iv'e ever come across, dont seem to be messages from down this way though, or much about the scamps, i have a couple of old photoes and stories of my great great grandfather gilderoy and his wife kitty, but im new toall this so how to i get them to you so they can go on your site? wolud like to know if you have the time to tell me, kushty bok. tony.
hello stephen,
I am David Doe from worcestershire, my father was John Doe son of Maurice and Daisy Doe and Maurice was son of Francis and Alice Doe
would you please get in contact to see how we are related as there is another lot of Does which you have not included.
You also mentioned Jack and Pheobe Doe jack is my grandads brother. look forward to hearing from you thanks David Doe
Shaw Family in Lincolnshire
Hi,
I am currently researching my family history.
My great, great, great grandfather was Elijah Shaw, married at some time to Ann Hall. Possibly in Lincolnshire, his occupation on son Aaron's Marriage Certificate in 1875 is that of hawker (deceased).
His son is Aaron Shaw born 13/10/1843 in Market Deeping lincolnshire, he was also a Hawker initially and then settled in Horncastle and became an Optician and spectacle maker. I note from Aaron's marriage certifiacate that he was a widower when he married margaret Burke in 1875.
There has always been 'family history that they were from a Romany family, there is also a family story that they came from ireland , so not sure!
I would be really interested to hear from you if you have any more info.
Census returns have not been particularly helpful, I am wondering if they were 'travelling' at those times.
best wishes,
Katrina.
Hi Elizabeth
When you get the time, would you mind digging out the DNA test results papers, Y and mtDNA and email me what Haplo Groups were found?
I am also interested in knowing what company was used.
lockeroots@comcast.net
Same goes for anyone else who has already tested, I would love to hear about your test results.
Thanks
Don
20/4/08
To Stephen Doe (& Donald Locke )
RE: R&TFHS -Romany Routes March 2008 Vol 8 # 6 Page 319 From Viking Long Boat to Gypsy Caravan: Part 1
Hello Stephen
I have seen your name on this site so thought I would contact your re: your artical and DNA results showing a link to Viking heritage.
My Dad (surname Lee) has had his DNA Mitachondria done for both his paternal & maternal lines .
My Dad hails from on his paternal side Lee (his father) and Dighton & Cooper (his fathers mother side) lines /surnames. On his maternal side is Ackleton , Davis & Page . The maternal line coming from the Page surname. Both family lines (his father & mother) have always been travelers (Gypsies) coming from Kent England.
His mothers maternal line reveals that his mother (an Ackleton surname but with a direct maternal line of Page) shared the same DNA as the poor old 'Ice Man' that was killed in the Alps that they found a few years ago! Obviously her maternal line shared a same common ancestor from that region where the 'Ice Man' came from.
His father's paternal line (Lee as far back as we know) revealed that he had a 'mutation' gene on it which reflected a Viking /Scandanavian hertitage as well. This was a real suprise to us! I do not know the exact sequence of Haplo-group -as I would have to 'dig out the result's to be more specific for you both.
Do you know if ever the Doe & Lee families were related at some stage way back in the past? As far as we know we have always been Lee Gypsies for about 250yrs ~ according to our 'oral history pasted down on the Lee side'. - his fathers line.
I thought the article was really interesting and very informative and wish you and Donald Locke goodluck with the DNA project. It would be good to see where the traveler families roots come form 'originally', and there potential route fof migration through Europe and into Britain & Ireland (etc).
Kushti Bok -and hope you get this email? I was going to write to you via the R&TFHS -but saw your name here and there on the query page & guest book page. No doubt the Romany Gene 'grapevine' will let you know I have posted this here for you!
Cheers
Elizabeth (Lee) Visser -Perth Western Australia
Hi everyone
Just an update on the Romnchel DNA project.
5 Locke's and 1 Bailey are in the project now.
All Romany / Gypsy / Traveler family's regardless where you now live, are invited to join us in this project.
Why speculate who we are or where we come from any longer? We have this technology available to us now, we can take the guess work out of our family's history. By comparing our DNA to other peoples world wide, we can find the answers we all seek, who are we and where did we come from.
Men and Ladies are welcome to join the project. We can do the research ourselves by getting each of our family's involved in DNA testing.
There are many things to learned, but we must do it ourselves and not rely on others to do the DNA studies for us.
Why continue guessing if we come from India or Pakistan or Iran? We can find our own answers through this project, and through this project we can compare our DNA to other Romany / Gypsy / Travelers DNA through out Europe. We can find our own answers and come to our own conclusions and not rely on others to do the research for us. We as a people can do our own DNA study!
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/
Don't be scared of new technology my friends, embrace it as a new tool to help us better understand who our ancestors were and where they came from.
Hi, gosh what a mess......
I am trying to trace my grandfathers family......all I know is that he was born 29 8 1901 in Stockport, and died in Doncaster 31 march 1988.
His mothers name was Hetty...or Hettie....we dont know if Boswell was her maiden name....or he married name....or that she just took her partners name.....!!! it turns out that his father was not BOSWELL but YARWOOD.....Because his birh was not registerd till he died....I am drawing a blank!!! All I know is that they were the 1st of the family to settle maybe in Stockport.
If there is any light at the end of this tunnel, PLEASE PLEASE direct me to it!!!
Many Thabks and reguards Gail.
Is micheal doe out there you put a message up for me about the Doe family at thorney hill i think we are related please email me pikey178@ntlworld.com thanks Alex
to jane scott on the cooper doe jeff page the bottom picture under all the small pictures is of some scotts from thorney hill and bransgore i will ask my mum and i think she can name them for you Alex
hi sue,i really want to thank you so very much for all the info you gave me .iwould never have got any where with your info thank you .i no you helped once can you help again ?my grandad was sydney barnes born 10/11/1910 newforest minstead he died 2/2/1980-1 in totton he was the husband to unity wells daughter of benjamin and priscilla wells he had brothers and sisters i think but we never saw them .its awfull not nowing who your family is ,don,t you think.
best regards unity
hi sue,i really want to thank you so very much for all the info you gave me .iwould never have got any where with your info thank you .i no you helped once can you help again ?my grandad was sydney barnes born 10/11/1910 newforest minstead he died 2/2/1980-1 in totton he was the husband to unity wells daughter of benjamin and priscilla wells he had brothers and sisters i think but we never saw them .its awfull not nowing who your family is ,don,t you think.
best regards unity
hi michael j doe ,my granmother was florence b doe born around 1906.she lived in parkstone pool when she had my dad ,then they at netly veiw in the newforest her married name was duckett the wife of the well nown bones player which you will find on the gypsy with a photo of him and the story of his playing them
i hope that can help you a little regards unity
hi michael j doe ,my granmother was florence b doe born around 1906.she lived in parkstone pool when she had my dad ,then they at netly veiw in the newforest her married name was duckett the wife of the well nown bones player which you will find on the gypsy with a photo of him and the story of his playing them
i hope that can help you a little regards unity
I see mention of a William Swift when I google, and it tells me blank page, but I still cannot find any reference on your queries page.
I am looking for a James Swift, who married Eliza Harrford in Torquay in 1881. he was born in Gt Yarmouth in 1858, son of William Swift and Ellen Bunn. His son, James Swift, born in Ramsgate C1892 married Mary Smith, and apparently her mother definitely was a Romany, selling lace door to door in Plymouth. We really are stuck on this and would be grateful if you have any suggestions. Thanks Jo
Hi Maurice nice to see your looking in from Aussie ! and hope you enjoy the site Kushti Bok.
Hi Maurice Thomas Barr here in australia. Son of Maurice & Fiance, grandson of Maurice & Fiance (wells somerset).
Thank You site owner for your time ,and it gives me a bit to be getting on with thanks again Dean Ditton ps i forgot to put the @ in the email address thanks once more Dean
Hi There,
I was wondering if anyone can help me, during the 1934's my Mum's Mum died Florence Dighton and she left behind 3 little girls, Kathy, Sheila and Florrie, a man ccalled Percy Boswell helped them and took them to Belveredere Marshes- apparently this was quite big news at the time because of the girls, My Nan was married to a man called Levi Dighton, I would love to know if anyone has any info on this story.
Many Thanks Pauline x
SITE OWNER
HI I THINK YOUR SITE IS GREAT, JUST THOUGHT I WOUD POINT OUT A SMALL MISTAKE, ON THE BUCKLAND PAGE /PASSENGER LIST LIVERPOOL QUEENSTOWN IRELAND NEW YORK
Departure date : 28th June1904 Ship : SS Carpathia
Port of Arrival : New York
THERE IS NO MENTION OF MY WIFES GRANDFATHER OLD GEORGE BUCKLAND WHO WAS THE SON OF TOM BUCKLAND AND PHEOBIE MARY STANLEY,HE RETURNED TO THE UK WITH HIS FATHER TOM AND HIS FAMILY,AND HIS UNCLE NELSON AND HIS FAMILY SME YEARS LATER BUT DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHEN
ON THE BUCKLAND USA PAGE, HIS BROTHER YOUNG TOM IS LISTED BETWEEN FRANCES AND ANNIE HE IS AGED 7 YEARS, BUT ON THE ORIGINAL SHIPS LOG THERE ARE 2 NAMES BETWEEN FRANCES AND ANNIE, TOM IS 11 YEARS NOT 7 AND ALTHOUGH HARD TO READ GEORGE, MY WIFES GRANDAD IS AGED 7 BORN 1897, YOUNG TOM ENDED UP IN Morecambe SOME OF HIS FAMILY STILL LIVE THERE, GEORGE ENDED UP IN SCOTLAND ALL HIS FAMILY LIVE THERE ALSO, IN ALL THE BUCKLAND FAMILY TREE,S GEORGE SEEMS TO BE THE ONE NOT MENTIONED,
BUT HI HAD A VERY LARGE FAMILY IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO CONTACT ME MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS RACHEL3COOKIE@YAHOO.CO.UK THANKS
What a lovely site! I come on here every day and have a good look about. Thereâs so much to read and look at its fair cushty. This site is the best site ive seen it must of took you ages to put it together well done.
Take care & be lucky. Mary x
Sorry the bit about Justinia she a Diton!!typo it should read she was a Diton before she wed!!
Dean I tried to email you but the email came back said too many letters ?anyway here is some info that i had to hand some needs verifying as just my guess work that Noah is son of Nathan etc see below.
(I think this is the Nathan below in later Census and I think maybe Duanna was a Boswell before marriage as name is also in Boswell family)
1851*Plumstead Kent (Gypsies in the open air)
James Dighton 29 hd tinker &grinder b Tonbridge, Kent
Duanna Dighton wife 32 b Crapton, Worcestershire
Buron Nathan Dighton 6 son b Farningham, Kent
Elijah Dighton 2 son b Plumstead
Oliver Dighton 2 weeks son b Plumstead
Solomon Dighton 5 son b Plaxtol, Kent,
***********************************,
Levi Boswell 24 tinker & Grinder b Ackford, Gloucestershire
Justinia Boswell wife 27 b Rainham, Essex (she a Dighton
Levi son 4 b Wanstead This is the levi who married Urania Lee the gypsy queen fortune teller
as on my page about dukkerin very famous and well known )
herbert son 10 months b Plumstead, Kent
****************************
Samuel Lee 33 chair maker b Acton, Middlesex
Arthuni ?wife b Blank
Duanna 10 dau b Folkstone, Kent
Joseph 8 son b Folkstone
Cinderella 6 dau b Folkstone
Phembridge 4 son b Folkstone
Methusalem 1 son b Folkst
*******************************************
Plato Boswell Head 1822 Retford, Tinman and Brazier Worcs
Mazell Boswell Wife 1820 Mx
Betsey Boswell Dtr 1850 Folkstone Kent
//
James Dighton Wid 47 Tinker and Grinder Sawbridgeworth Herts
John Dighton Son 21 Essex Rainham
Founess? Saunders? Dighton Son 19 Ex, White Rudon?
Isabella Dighton Dtr 17 Kent Capel
William Dighton Son 14 Essex H/Over?
Matilda Dighton Dtr 12 Kent Swanscombe
Laurence Dighton Son 9 Ex, Barking Side
Henry Dighton Son 5 Kent Swanscombe
Andrew Dighton Son 3 Kent Swanscombe
*******************************************************
1881*Street address: Mitcham Common Caravan (lots of Gypsies there a big Encampment)
Nathan Diton 44 hd hawker b
Urane Diton 35 b Watford, Suffolk
Agne Diton 8 b Bromley, Kent
Alice Diton 2 b Bromley, Kent
Massey Diton 5 b Shirley, Surrey
Noah Diton17 hawker b Shirley, Surrey
***************************************************
Noah Diton 30 hd b Plumstead, Kent(Peg Maker)
Lydia Diton 24 b Ipswich, Suffolk
James Diton 5 son b Shirley, Surrey
Walter Diton 1 son b Mitcham, Surrey
***************************************************
Duanna Diton 67 hd b Hereford,
Deliah Diton 26 dau b North Woolwich, Kent
Noah Diton 23son Genl Dealer b North Woolwich, Kent
Phoebe Diton 22 dau b Bexley, Kent
Priscilla Diton 15 dau b Wandsworth, Surrey
Walter Diton 20 son b Streatham, Surrey
*****************************************************
Patience Diton33 b Suffolk
Soloman Diton37 b Plumstead, Kent
Albert Diton4 son b Mitcham, Surrey
Celia Diton5 dau b Shirley, Surrey
Deliah Diton10 b Suffolk
Lavina Diton2 b Mitcham, Surrey
***************************
James Diton 61 hd b Mitcham, Surrey
Misel Diton 61 wife b Hereford
Andrick Diton 25 son b North Woolwich, Kent
William Diton 19 son b Beckenham, Kent
*****************
1891 Census* ? Cant find a Nathan in 1891? so maybe him or not using a different name which wasent unusual?
also he is down as widow ?so did he marry twice? also age is difference so I will include for reference but needs more research etc) Almost certainly related anyway!!
Town: Chatham County/Island: Kent (In caravan)
1891*Town: Chatham County: Kent
John Diten 47 hd widow hawker b Farningham, Kent (also cant find the John in 1881?)
Amelia Diten 9/12 dau b Maidstone, Kent
Eliza Diten 3 dau b Crathie, Kent,
Lina Diten 9 dau b Beckenham, Kent
Noah Diten 24 son b Romford Essex
Ocean Diten 6 dau b Gillingham, Kent
I have emailed you Dean about your Ditons.
Hi, i`m from chatham kent and i was just wondering if anybody knows anything about my greatgrandfather Noah Diton he came from surrey we think and he married florence and had a child named john (jack) in 1905 ish or if anybody can help me find out more details on how to get the information
i would be very greatful. My fathers name is Douglas William Diton and he`s getting on for 82 and i would like to tell him more about his grandfather.
Thank you a great site. My email is deandeal123Yahoo.co.uk Thank you.
i do feel so blessed to be of romany blood, since i found out a some time back this web site has given me great knowledge
of romany life iam a gorger as the saying goes i do wish that i could turn back time thank you all and this web site.Darren Eastwood
Hi to Kushti & Fellow Romany Folk
I would like to say that this site IS fantastic. Since posting my comment on here last week I have received an email from John and Annie who are Pidgley Romanies and they only live no more than five miles away... I have been blown away by all the information they have given me. I've got quite a bit of family history to catch up on as apparantly there are 7000 Pidgley's out there!! If you're one of them then get in touch. My initial comment on Thursday 27th March contains all the family connection and contact details if you fancy dropping me a line. Also, would anybody know if there is a log of names and where it would be held concerning the Spanish Armada please? This is apparantly how the Pidgley's crossed from Spain over into Britain.
hi, just want to say i am so excited to have found this site, i have enjoyed reading about the families esp the name i share. It will be truly fantastic if i can track down my folks, im of to see an old aunt to question, will let you know if i find anything, many blessings to all who are seeking
hi there
Many thanks for your response, sorry for the chunky sized theory, but i would put money on there being a link and so would you if you saw my nieces, they resemble the Kalash people in a strong way, I myself also have the features. It is possible that the Kalash people have spilt over the borders through the Khyber Pass into Iran and India and therefore their own genes have been passed on, which could explain why there are fair haired and blue/green eyed Iranians and Indians. Also our family in particular always seem drawn to that part of the world and also have a fascination with Greece, it is almost as if it is an instinct with us. I lived in Cyprus for two years when I was a child and found it extremely easy to pick up the language. Could this be our genes giving us an affinity with these regions and their cultures. It is a theory that I would like to put to the test, I am planning on doing a trip to Kalash as you can get organised trips there. This is my road to Damascus (thats greek isn't it?) I am also planning to have a geneology DNA test and if i can find someone from Kalash who would be willing to do the same, then this might be an interesting discovery. There's lots of Pidgleys in and around the Bournemouth and Ringwood area, but sadly they don't make themselves known to us. Also it was my Grandpas sister who was the flower seller in Bournemouth square and there used to be a picture of her in the square hanging up at the restuarant in Debenhams years ago. My grandpa also used to be goalkeeper for Ringwood Town Football club and my youngest nephew Koorosh is a very talented football player and he's only five. There is also another Pidgley footballer who plays for I think I premiership team or even a division 1 team, i'll have to find out, that shouldn't be too difficult. This is all very very exciting and i am so pleased you got back to me. This is a fantastic site and I'm so glad i have found it. Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
Wow a toughy !! I think i Will email you on this as a lenthy answer LOL, I have read about the Kalash and from what Iv read there are quuite a few theories as to their origins as well ?some say they come from the Kurds and Iranian peoples and some say Alexander the great so just as uch a problem as the Indian theory ,my initial reaction was that it would seem strange if they originate from a Muslim people as it was from the Islamic invaders that Gypsies were first meant to have run away from? so it would seem strange on that point alone? But i will email you and a very good question!! Oh and i know many Pidgleys and alot that I know arnt that dark but then maybe thats because they have married out?.
Hi there
My name is Suzanne and I have a question and a theory.
Firstly my question is this - my great grandfather was William George Pidgley, born 1862 at Hill Top, Fawley. His occupation was a licensed hawker and he died in Christchurch in 1944. He and his wife Mary had many children, one of them my grandfather Jack Pidgley born in 1907 in Christchurch. William's father was John Pidgley also born at Hill Top Fawley in 1840 and his mother was Amelia was born in Bagshot 1843. (I'll get to the question shortly...sorry :-)..) Now all of my family have been led to believe that our Pidgley family came over on the Spanish Armada in the 1600's and resided in the New Forest shortly after arriving. Is there a way of finding out if this is correct or not please? If so how would I go about it? I am aware that the Pidgley name has changed in it's spelling over the years and indeed my own grandmother who was from London even changed the spelling herself adding an extra E into it to make it Pidgeley as she didn't want to be associated with romany gypsies (wish she hadn't done that though) when she married my grandpa I have seen Pidgley spelt as Pedgley...do you think this is a play on the work peddlar, which is what most of the gypsies were really? Anyway this leads to my theory which has come about since watching Michael Palin's Himalayas programmes. You'll have to bear with me on this, but I promise you it'll be worth it and it could and just might change the whole concept of where Romany Gypsies actually come from...here goes.
My theory is this - Romany's do not come from either Eygpt ot India. I strongly believe the origin is from a place called Kalash in the north of Pakistan, near the Khyber Pass on the border of Iran. The reason why I believe this is because I myself have the traditional romany look of large almond shaped eyes that are green/blue in colour with the black rim around the iris. I have the darker complexion that is common amongst Romanies and so too does my Mum and sisters. We all carry the same look. However it is the children of my sisters that pose the link that is providing me with this theory and that is because their dads come from Iran and instead of having dark hair and brown eyes, they have the same look as what I do, but more intensified and they look exactly like the people who live in Kalash. The original language of the romany gypsy was farci and through time they established their own language whilst picking up on latin and other European languages and eventually anglo saxon etc. My sister Karen visited Paultons Park recently and was shocked to see written farci on the Romany section there. Is it possible that due to my sisters having romany blood in them and also both of them marrying Iranian men that the gene has somehow gone full circle and that their children look like inhabitants of Kalash? I think it could be. The connection with India is possible, but I think it is more likely to be Kalash. The people of Kalash it is said are supposed to be direct decendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers who settled there and indeed there customs and rituals are Greek and Persian based and their religious beliefs are based upon animous and spiritual gods. That is for sure a Romany belief, and so too for India. There is a reincarnation belief too that surrounds all of this, again eminating from this region. Also anyone who takes up Islam as their chosen religion is discouraged from entering back into the community. However what is even more fascinating is the way in which the people of this region hold their women in high regard...that too is for sure a Romany trait. If you google Kalash and then hit the image button on your browser you will see pictures of these people and you will see that they look a lot more like Romanies than what Indian's do. I am aware that you can get green/blue eyed people with fair hair in India and Iran, but in Kashal the majority seem to have this resemblance. Which is why I believe that's where the original Romany Gypsy came from. I am prepared to have my DNA tested for this, and so too is the rest of my family, I would put money on there being a match/link with the people of Kalash. If there is anybody else related to the Pidgleys or indeed any other romany related person who would like to join us then please let me know as this would be a fascinating theory to put to the test. It's all in the eyes.
If you would like to contact me, my number is 01425 629974, or my email is hippacuppa@yahoo.co.uk. And bless Michael Palin.
I look forward to hearing from you with your thoughts on this.
Kind warm regards
Suzanne Singleton
p.s - please excuse my typos in this, would believe I have an A level in English Literature and English Language?
Thanks Jane their are Scott and lots of Ayres in the Baptisms and data but of course i can only put the pictures on if folk send them to me ? maybe you have some if you have just email me them and I will happily put them on the site just click the email link thanks and happy easter every one.
I think you web site was very well done ,enjoyed all the old pictures ,but i didnt see any scott or aires like to here a reply soon thanks...
Hi Jenni thanks so much for letting us know what happened to William its nice to be able to see what happened to some of the Transportees !!
do you know his line ? as in what family he came from?
In the "Folki in trouble " section the last entry is William Stanley born c 1796 Hampshire.
He was transported for life as an 18 yr old to Australia and I am descended from him.
William was a good worker for Governor Davey in Hobart,Van Deimens Land and was given a ticket of leave.He married the daughter of a First and Second Fleeter and raised his family in Tasmania.
He then moved to the Gold Rush in Bendigo,Victoria in abt 1853, where his wife Sarah Ryan died on the diggings.
His family were pioneers in the Echuca area of Victoria and William died at the State records age of 111 years , though we think it was probably 97 yrs.
He had a family of 10 and names such as Selina and Daniel Dangerfield seem to be of his Romani heritage.William worked primarily as a carter and so his connection with horses continued!
I wonder what stories of the New Forest he told his children?
You have a great site keep up the good work!
Jenni
I would like to thank you so much for what you have done here. I think this is just great. Your site helped me trace my people farther back than I ever could have on my own. My great-uncle Valley Stanley would tell us stories about his people before he passed. You can't imagine how blown away we were to read about them in the newspaper articles you have on here. This site is the reason my mom wants a computer now. lol Now there is a disagreement about my dad's side. We don't know if there are any Pearce romanychal in England or did they just marry in here in America. We do know that the first Pearce here was married to a Jeffery but it's in doubtwhether they were married here or there. If someone can help i would be so grateful...Thanks again and if i can help with anything just ask .
for dorothy walker
scrap metal, china hawking & general dealing was and still is travelling occupations. it was lovely to read your message
i hope your friend is proud of her roots regards selina
Thankyou Dorothy and also to all the kind folki who have left lovely messages makes it all worthwhie glad you are all enjoying the site and I hope it spurs you on to record the past before its too late its a great History to leave our Children and Grand Children .
What a fantastic site! I have been doing some research for my friend and the last name I have come across was Drummond. So off I go with the usual research links etc. and part of the way through think - Humm! Gypsy?
Well it was right and I have had a fantastic time tracking these people down. Of course there is the usual problem because of their travels and lack in some cases of marriage certificates, birth certificates etc. that my research or methods were not as easy as usual but that all added to the fun!
When I got to this site, looking for photos to illustarte my friends tree, I thought I had struck gold and indeed I had even if I could not print or download at least I could tell her where to look. Hopefully she may add something to your site.
Her grandmother was a Drummond on her father's side and the family were based in Tynemouth and it is through her grandmother's father that the gypsy link is found. Although I thing her great grandmother was also a romany but it is slim evidence only being that when her husband died she put hawker on her census return.
What did and still does worry me is that John Drummond put he was a cooper jobbing and also the only census reference I have found for his father (who was living with him in 1881 but had no occupation listed) shows him also as a cooper BUT on that census his wife is a hawker, his son a carter and another son a labouer but his daughter on the next census is with her brother and she is also listed as a hawker.
The fact I can not find them in 1841, 1851 or 1871 does not help but I guess that is what happened with travellers also the fact that on each census their place of birth seems to change all added to the challange.
Anyway my friend is delighted to find out she has romany blood and now knows where she gets her 'itchy feet' from - I have sent her to this site so guess we will not be hearing from her for days.
There does not seem to be any mention of the Boarder romany but I have looked at the Kirk Yetholm site and believe these Drummonds belong to that area. They travelled between Berwick on Tweed as far south as Tynemouth but do not seem to have 'gone across the water' into Durham. They also as time went on had more and more of them settling down into communicties and taking on non travelling occupations branching into scrap metal broker, china hawkers and general dealers which I presume is what happened over time.
I thought what a hard life but looking at your photos told me that hard it may be but a lot of happiness as well - Thank you for a great site.
hi site owner,
i am trying to find out more about my Ancesters and if they were travellers.
i know a william rawlings married a Kezia Bull that they come from the hampshire area and that william was a chimney sweep
there son william also had a son named william who had a son called moses Rawlings from Tadley living pember heath .
if you have any information about the rawlings family i would be most gratful.
sonia
What a great site! It was really lovely to open it up and see my lovely cousin Bob Lovell who I met for the first time this summer...he is the family historian and i have learnt so much about our family from him...whilst he has told me much about my maternal grandmother and the rest of the Lovell/Lees I don't know about my grandfather, Benny Bennett who disappeared when Brooks field was in Newport was shut down and my mother taken into care. If anyone has any info please let me know, my great uncle - Bob's dad could only tell Bob sketchy details about him.
If Mel from Pontypridd can be put in touch with me that would be cool. Thankyou, Allison.
Hi everyone
I have been looking at the site WOW hasn't it grown and so wonderful to see some beautiful photos it makes such a difference to be albe to put a face to names.
I would for one like to say a really " BIG THANK YOU " to Sue the site owner
I know who spends countless hours on her PC doing this site ( MANY LONG NIGHTS !!!) and making all this possible and maybe those that come here and can find much about families and even link up with missing relations ( I have personally due to this site here and abroad thanks to SUE)
May not know SUE does this all for no payment !! NOTHING NO SPECIAL FUNDING NOTHING !!! It costs her money to keep it going.
This might surprise many but unlike lots of other sites on the Internet this one is totally funded by the Owner ( I hope sue won;t mind me saying this but I do have a reason)
I for one think there isn't another site that can compare to this its a credit to SUE for her patience and time spent not just filling this site with amazing information , but her generousity to do this for everyone. We all know how differcult it is to find family gone or still living .
She always finds time to help people too, searching for those relations that seem sometimes invisible so please everyone join with me and wish her a BIG THANK YOU she is a very special lady.
May your site continue to grow and please if ever you need too I for one would pay to keep it going its too valuable an asset to lose.
What a wonderful site. Sandra Buckland recommended it to me.
My name is Wisdom James. I am related to the Boswell, Smith, Penfold, Crocker, Cooper etc. families.
I don't know where to start really, so perhaps someone might like to send me a message. I do have quite a lot of information, so I thought I could pass it on and pick up some more.
Thanks. Wisdom.
Of all the photos on this site there is one I always look at, and that is the one of Georgina Cooper on the Cooper/Doe/Jeff Page, even not being related to her (wish I was) I think she must have been a very proud woman indeed by the look of her.
Thanks Maxine thats very kind of you to say so and please keep coming back as I try and add new (well new old ) LOL !all the time .
I happened upon this site by chance and, although I cannot claim fame to being of Gypsy stock, I found this site to be of most interesting and very informative.....so much so, that I have spent the last four hours, reading through each section.
All in all, a great site. I shall be sure to keep myself up to date, as more information is added. Thank you for sharing.
Jean forgot to say I only have Phoenix and wife Lydia OR known as Elizabeth Boss and their kids expect you already have them.
Jean sorry to hear of your loss my sypathy to you ,as regards the message i think it may have been the Romany Routes email list ?
PLEASE CAN YOU HELP ? I WAS LEFT A MESSAGE ON THIS OR MAYBE ONE OF THE OTHER ROMANY SITES REGARDING PHEONIX TAYLOR . IT WAS SENT TO ME BY GLYNN JONES. BUT DUE TO A FAMILY BEREVEAMENT I HAVENT BEEN ON THE SITES FOR A WHILE AND LOST THE CONTACT, PHEONIX IS AN IMPORTANT LINK FOR ME TRACING OR HISTORY, HAS ANY ONE SPOTTED THIS MESSAGE ? THANKS JEAN TAYLOR jaide79@hotmail.co.uk
I know my grandparents and their witness's signed their wedding certificate with a cross because they couldn't read or write..but I wonder what the registrars excuse was for scribbling.or did he think that because my Nan and granddad couldn't read what was on the certificate it didn't matter
I can just about make out my grandparents names and that they were married in Windsor in July 1901..cant work out the day or where they were living at the time..I worked out my Great Grandfathers name but need someone who can work out what is written over the rest of the certificate...any Ideas ?
Great site must have taken you ages its so colourful and beautifully designed its a credit to you and all Romany folki to be presented in such a positive and Historical way well done for the best Gypsy History site on the web and all the work you do helping folk with their family history (me included!!) many thanks and good luck .
A fantastic site . I've had a lovely morning going over the gems you have listed. My background is Scottish traveller; folk are off the road now but I don't want the culture to die therefore I write books about the old days.
keep up the good work it must bring a lot of inquisitive minds together sincerely Jess Smith.
Here a link for anybody intrested in the Romany language..http://www.geocities.com/~Patrin/rumney.htm
Bruce Cooper
I would like to thank Sue for all that she has discovered about my family, she has found out more in the last couple of days than I have over the past six months..you never know I might even have relations out there who read this website.. my fathers name was ARTHUR COOPER and his mothers name was LENA COOPER (nee Ball) and his fathers name was NELSON "FROGGIE"COOPER..and from what I'v been told they were part of the "WINDSOR COOPERS"..
Bruce Cooper
hello
lost links to this site can Selina turner please contact me she left a message for michael doe the hughes she mentions are my aunt daisys family and the ruby is my couin email pikey178@ntlworld.com
I have only just found this great site.. this is what I was told about about my farthers family as a kid, my grandparents on my farther side were Nelson "froggie" Cooper and Lena Cooper "nee" Bull. apart from that there not much else besides my grandfathers mother who's name was Leggett and was working at Windsor Castle, gave birth to him on frogs island on the thames at windsor about 1880 something..she then gave him to the Coopers who were travelling showman in Berkshire, this is were he grew up and married my grandmother Lena Bull they went on to have I think seven children, I was taken as a kid to their winter quarters somewhere near Slough I think it was.. my Father was born in 1905 so my Grandfather and grandmother must have been in their twenties when they had him...even If I don't ever find out another thing about them...I'v always been and always will proud that I'm half Gypsy...mum wasn't and I forget what dad told me she was called as she wasn't a Gypsy... thanks for reading this and I hope you all find who your looking for..
Don thanks for the link and great work !many thanks for thinking of us and hope the DNA project is going well Kusthti Bok.
Hi Cathay glad you had a good time but I knew you would with my friends cause their the best!!!
Hi everyone,
I have just posted a web page with Romani in American census records, some of which has already been posted on this web site.
But I have added to that ever growing list.
http://lockeroots.home.comcast.net/~lockeroots/GypsyCensusRecords.html
The Romani DNA project is a worthy cause, so I have decided to keep that up and running too.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/
Donald Locke
hi wonder if you can help i have got little info on my ancestors all i know is my grandads name was william goodall and that he was a romany can you help thanks
hi sue.i had alovely time with your beloved friends annie and john.we got quite a lot done.i see john has already given you some photos to go on birch 2.i only found birch 2 by chance!i hope to meet you when we come to annies and johns.they speak very highly of you.i found tex taylor was really jimmy(james)taylor born in barnstaple.he only changed hius name when he went to america to fight.he had a few women problems and got beat up badly so returned to enland never to fight again!never mind.he did get to let a few pidgeons out of a basket for a royal visit to barnstaple in the 1950s.all for now.loads of hugs cathay.
Deirdre theres no need to log in thats just for me LOL just click the email link and you can email me from there.Or its romanygenes@aol.com.
Deirdre theres no need to log in thats just for me LOL just click the email link and you can email me from there.Or its romanygenes@aol.com.
im sorry site owner i have no idea as i have never bothered to look at my family tree and wouldnt know where to start...i have however got a couple of old black and white pics of my grandparents and father i was going to email you but for some reason it wont let me log on to loginnet passport...as i have no idea what my login name or password is as i have never used this system of email....
Thanks Deidre for your kind remarks and how about your Coopers? what line is your Samuel from ?>
i had to write another comment this is all so fascinating...everything i know about my ancestors is fitting here like a glove...my dad samuel cooper was called digger...my grandfather samuel cooper was a boxer...
came across this site by accident and most impressed...my maiden name is COOPER and my ancestors came from ireland where they owned a touring fair ground...my grandfather samuel cooper was born in a barn in ALFRISTON SUSSEX....and he used to be a rag and bone man.....on my grandmothers side her maiden name was SULLIVAN and they used to be flower sellers in WORTHING SUSSEX...
HI BRENDA ROE
Welcome to the family its massive and I mean massive lol
There is too much to put on here about family it would take pages
I am related to you many times as are several other people I know and I am in contact with them, please as Site Owner for my Email and I will explain your connections. go look at this site too, many people are on there looking for Penfolds all over the world "Rootschats" just put in search bar.
Always great to find another relation and thanks to this site which is the best on Internet we are all getting together many thanks to SUE for her time and patience putting so much effort into finding information ZHAN LE DEVESA TAI SASTIMASA
Hi everyone - I am new to all this and was really glad to find your site. I t has been fascinating reading about everyone's families and about the romany culture and lifestyle, i liked the gallery photos, very interesting. My family interest is through my sister-in-law whose family are Penfolds, Orchards and Hollands. her mother is Faith Holland, mother Christiana Penfold and father John Holland. Christiana had abrother Edwin. Her mother was Caroline Orchard and father John Penfold who married in Bodmin in 1906. Have tried unsuccessfully to pinpoint the correct family from the census sheets. John Penfolds mother was Rachel and father was Edward Penfold. according to family memories they had 22 children. The family are westcountry based - devon, cornwall and somerset. Any help putting me on the right track from anyone would be greatly appreciated. I would like to give my sister in law as full a tree as possible but feel i can't get any further without more help. The only census sheet (1901) that could be edward and rachel is one where the wife and childrens names are put down as initials! SDoes anyone recognise this family? I could only find two christianas one c. 1898 Truro and one 1907 Bodmin. I thought I would be able to trace the families but it has proved extremely challenging! thank you for the site, Sue, it must keep you up all your waking hours keeping it up to date. thanks.
S.J.DAY
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Got some interesting news to report. I pushed for a new Deep Clade SNP test back in April 2008 and got my wishes.
15 men in Y Haplo Group H, which included several Romany men, volenteered to pay in advance to have this new Deep Clade SNP test be created. Today some of the test results came in.
The new SNP test was intended to help break down Haplo H in to smaller sub groups, and it did exactly that today. Men from India, Pakistan, England, USA were involved in this trial testing.
The British Romany men who participated in this trial testing, were previously in Y Haplo Group H.
After the Deep Clade SNP test, we are now in Y Haplo H1a.
The Rom surnames involved included Locke, Campbell, Carter, Bailey, and all are in Haplo H1a now.
That is a very important step which will one day help identify which specific people in India and Pakistan the European Roms likely descended from.
The trial testing is now over, and this new Deep Clade SNP test is now available to the general public who are in Y Haplo Group H*. So all future DNA participants who are found to be in this rare DNA group, which is also found among some Romany men, now have the option to order this new test.
Now knowing the proven and suspected Romany descendants are all in Y Haplo H1a, gives us far more information then we had in the past. So regardless our surnames, the Roms who are involved in DNA testing, now know we all share very similar DNA at a much deeper level then we knew about previously. That is very exciting news!
This new SNP test has also helped exclude some men of India, who are now greatly distanced from the British Rom descendants, and at the same time showed us that some men of India and Pakistan are also in H1a. That is a very important piece of the puzzle because the Indian and Pakistani tribal histories of the men in H1a may one day help explain the Romany migration to Europe.
This was but a small step today, but a big leep in our knowledge in Rom male DNA.
Donald Locke